Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shin Megami Tensei IV

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Megami Tensei . Black Kite (talk) 10:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Shin Megami Tensei IV

Shin Megami Tensei IV (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)

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Lacks any kind of Notability. The only confirmed here is that is a video game from a notable series, that will be released for the Nintendo 3DS. Fails WP:CRYSTAL as there is no release date. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 21:54, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Strongly disagree on two accounts:

• Shin Megami Tensei is in the top 3 JPRG franchises: Gamespot. It is absolutely a notable topic.

• Pokemon, Animal Crossing, and essentially every other important video game title has been given its own page, even before a release date has been released.

There is zero speculation in this article and it relies entirely on verified and sourced information regarding a major release. Absolutely nothing warrants its deletion. Von Karma (talk) 22:32, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

And that is your justification? "Other articles were created from nothing". This is 2012 not 2010, and in fact Animal Crossing was redirected. If nobody "redirect them or deleted them" is because nobody noticed so obscure pages. If you cannot demostrate real rules, like WP:GNG or WP:CRYSTAL, or even an essay like this, and you believe we need 50 "notable [sources]" saying the same ("SMT4 will be a N3D video game"), this is not correct wiki. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 00:57, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

"Nobody cared about those articles because they were obscure" is an extremely weak excuse and totally irrelevant; these articles were allowed to exist and were given an all-green before release dates were announced.

Ultimately, your argument boils down to:

• It is not notable enough: The reason I have included multiple sources is to address your complaint that "people don't care about this game/your article is 'lame' and nobody cares about it", people do care about the game in question judging from the audience response and the status of this franchise.

• Quoting WP:GNG: I have given an official website, primary, secondary AND tertiary sources all from top industry websites.

• Quoting WP:CRYSTAL: There is no speculation at hand, no "predictions", no extrapolation and no rumors; only verified, official information from 100% reliable sources; both physical (Famitsu magazine) and digital (http://megaten4.jp/). Von Karma (talk) 02:15, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

The notability is not gained after 39,000 references saying what the official site already says "Shin Megami Tensei IV is a Nintendo 3D game". Quoting what you missed from GNG and CRYSTAL:

• "Significant coverage" ... is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material.

Also the article is not independent from Megami Tensei, as Shin Megami Tensei IV is a single line.

• You said "There is no speculation at hand, no "predictions", no extrapolation and no rumors". Well, since when the future is written in stone? The producers can delay it, cancel it, or rename it (no problem here) at any time. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 03:07, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• What are you getting at here? You demanded evidence that this is being discussed and that it has relevance - I provided plenty. It is being covered by major companies in the industry and the user reaction showcases its importance.

• According to that logic, any article about an upcoming anything should be deleted; upcoming sports event, upcoming world tour, upcoming album, upcoming tv show, upcoming movie, etc... This argument holds no water whatsoever. Von Karma (talk) 04:06, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Albeit wp:crystal, the longer we wait, the more sources we have to prove its notability before the article is actually deleted. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 05:04, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

The only way from here is up - more information will be released, trailers and any other update; it is the exact same process that every article on a major product goes through. Von Karma (talk) 07:26, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

My rationale about the future is not that "anything should be deleted". There are "upcoming sports event, upcoming concert tours, upcoming albums, upcoming tv show, upcoming movie, etc." [sic] that even when they can be delayed or canceled, they stand by their own, for example This Is It (concerts). Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 20:24, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

How exactly would this not be able to "stand on its own"? It has:

• A title
• A confirmed platform
• A developer
• A publisher
• A tentative release date set for 2012
• Concept artwork from the official website

Ironically enough, that Dr. Dre article you quoted started out as nothing more than an announcement Detox and was built up from there.

PS: That [sic] is actually invalid Von Karma (talk) 20:50, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

"sports event" is incorrectly written so sic is valid; and you insist to use the "other stuff exist" argument, now in an article that was created in 2004. Since then Wikipedia and the world has changed, just see the template they used to use compared to the current. Also, Detox was taken to AFD in 2007. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 21:16, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• Delete for now, per WP:CRYSTAL. Recreate when you can say anything more than that WP:ITEXISTS. Axem Titanium (talk) 18:50, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• Articles like Modern Warfare went through this same discussion and they eventually settled to simply let the page exist. In this case, there was 0 information aside from "it's coming"; no release date, and not even a platform. Von Karma (talk) 20:29, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions. (G·N·B·S·RS·Talk) • Gene93k (talk) 00:27, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:27, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Salt, redirect to SMT - A simple announcement, but noted by a lot of sources. Not enough to start an article on. (contrast this to The Cave (video game) which itself only got announced but includes gameplay and development discussion. --MASEM (t) 00:59, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

• Redirect - To series article. It'll certainly be notable in time, but right now it's too soon... Sergecross73 msg me 01:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
• Redirect to series. That WP:OTHERSTUFF has not been touched is not a valid argument (on its own) and this fails WP:CRYSTAL insofar as "short articles that consist only of product announcement information are not appropriate." -Rushyo ^Talk 14:59, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
• Redirect to series. Fails WP:CRYSTAL on multiple levels and fails WP:GNG. If other stuff exists, then they can be dealt with in the appropriate venue(s) as well. --Tgeairn (talk) 19:14, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
• Redirect to series article. While I believe it will be notable in the future, that is not the case currently. We don't onow anything other than platform. Reach Out to the Truth 03:45, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.